Hicy/Tovaxin combination

ssmme · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:47 am Post subject: Hicy/Tovaxin combination

I have been thinking about hicy and Tovaxin in combination. I know this is hypothetical but what are the thoughts of others about this approach.

Let's say you give a bag of blood and have your t-cells put aside for vaccine then go through with the hicy protocol. When it's time to get vaccinations for everything why not get a dose of your Tovaxin vaccine also.

I started to think about epitope shift but it doesn't seem to be an issue for chicken pox, mmr, dpt vaccines. Some of these do require boosters though. Would Tovaxin be any different if given after your immune system is wiped out and started from scratch.

I know it would be scary to be the guinea pig on this one but does it seem like it would work? I know there's always a chance you could give yourself ms in the process just as you may get a light case of the chicken pox after that vaccine. Would it help to be on copaxone just like the current hicy protocol suggests.

Marcia
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DX'd 08/2006, RRMS, currently in the Tovaxin extension study group.

Lyon · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:17 am Post subject:

Hi Marcia,
I don't think the science is good enough to conclusively answer those questions. You might have noticed through the years that researchers state what they "think" the method of action with the crabs and other drugs are, but they can't say with certainty.

With HiCy the "considered" mode of action is that, at high enough dosage, it non selectively eliminates/ablates/kills all of the T and B cells, which if true would mean that any and all T cells that Tovaxin would identify and eliminate, HiCy would also. At the same time Revimmune should eliminate the "self reactive" cells of any and all autoimmune diseases

RedPenguins · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:12 pm Post subject:

I don't know the answer to this...but it doesn't sound right to me, for some reason...

I, for some odd reason, like that they pretty much annihilated everything in me (save for stem cells/bone marrow)...and would be freaked out by the idea of putting something inside of me that was there beforehand. Does that many any sense? Now, if they took my "new" blood....maybe...but I dunno. Obviously, I'm biased as I chose HiCy as opposed to Toxavin or anything else. I am just having to believe that Copaxone will be the needed vaccine that I need.

Anyhow, one thing I did want to touch upon: those of us who underwent HiCy DO NOT receive the chicken pox vaccine! In fact, chicken pox/shingles is ESPECIALLY dangerous to us after undergoing HiCy (for a period of time).

Of course, all of this is interesting...

~Keri

mommasan · Getting to Know You... Joined: Mar 16, 2008 Posts: 13

I'm with you, Keri. I would be afraid that putting that diseased part back into me could potentially trigger the MS again. I think Tovaxin is a great start in targeting the MS specifically, but it seems that there are many questions to answer as to what is going on in the immune system of each individual person who received the vaccine. Now, the study I would like to see done is whether MS could be prevented in humans with a strong family history of MS, with Copaxone. But, I don't think anyone would enroll in that trial. These shots are about as much fun as surgery without anesthesia.

Sandy

Lyon · Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:44 am Post subject:

mommasan · Getting to Know You... Joined: Mar 16, 2008 Posts: 13

Hi Bob,

I'd be a little wary of encouraging my immune system to respond to anything in an even remotely similar way that it reacted to my own myelin.

Sandy

ssmme · Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:21 am Post subject:

I know this idea sounds scary, that's the same reason an AIDS vaccine sounds scary too. But does the concept of triggering your immune system to attack MRTC's before they go haywire sound like a potential treatment?
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DX'd 08/2006, RRMS, currently in the Tovaxin extension study group.

mommasan · Getting to Know You... Joined: Mar 16, 2008 Posts: 13

Until Opexa can figure out why people like Lew and Chris S. seemed to get worse from the vaccine, I wouldn't want to take the risk. BUT..I would have definitely taken the risk if I hadn't been allowed to get the Revimmune treatment.

You were really fortunate to be fairly newly diagnosed and that seems to be ideal for Tovaxin. I was diagnosed in 1986, more than half my life ago. I just don't know if my immune system would react in the same way. I don't know why it should make a difference, but I'd wait until a vaccine was found that would work well on everyone, regardless of when they were diagnosed.

I don't know much about AIDS, but it seems like a vaccine for that would be difficult, given the fact that it is a retrovirus, can lay dormant for so long and mutates so frequently. BUT...If I had the HIV virus, I'd be the first one on line for that, too.

Sandy